“When we come out of this on the other side I want to be debt-free and get everyone back to work—that means selling a shit ton of whiskey,” owner Bill Thomas told The Washingtonian. Shop now! Delivered. “The secondary market could best be thought of as living, breathing data,” said the Louisville-based Minnick, who has authored numerous bourbon books and hosts an influential whiskey podcast. The first guy doesn’t even drink bourbon, but always keeps the rarer bottles for himself [last year a 23, this year a 15] while passing the 15’s and 12’s on to my friend. It can be illegal to have an open container in a vehicle so you’re forcing people to break the law. it is'" No, it is not, since there are any number of whiskeys on the shelf right now, in your nearest store, that are "good to drink." If it ever gets mad at me then I will surely but it in a shoebox; like I did to that stupid digital pet. (Though I'll always try the latter first.) Do you think distilleries are leaving money on the table by not increasing prices or it a strategic move? The secondary market provides a benchmark for a fair valuation of a company. Just because bourbon is hot right now doesn’t change our way of thinking to say let’s take advantage of the situation.” It’s hard to put a price tag on brand loyalty but even as demand slows a lot of Bourbonr’s will remember who was price gouging, both retailers and brands, and who treated their customers fairly. Now I’m kicking myself! I know retail prices are rising, but I believe that is coming from the retailer. Do you have a bottle to sell or a whole collection? In the early 2000’s pappy’s (all ages) was my regular drink If you move prices up to $149 like Willett has done, I cant see the secondary moving up another $80-$100, This right here sums up the bourbon craze almost exactly to me, ‘That differential allows people to buy something on the cheap but feel like they’re wearing a luxury item.”. As a former sneaker freak, I always loved having a pair of shoes that nobody else had. Here I am sipping on Pappy 15 while Warren Buffett wishes he could trade places with me. I have to agree with what you wrote in your article. I think the market will self correct as more people realized that they are buying hype to some level. I think part of the rise of bourbon and rye is due to longer aged bottling’s being significantly cheaper than a bottle of scotch of the same age. If so, how will they do so? The demand is skyrocketing and the lines for limited edition bottles are growing larger with every release. Last year, the word came down from the Facebook gods to these groups’ administrators, in part telling them, “While we allow people to talk about alcohol products, we will not allow people to sell or purchase these regulated products on our site. Interested in more details? Couple of issues with this. Now, I’m no sneakerhead (although I do still have a pair of gray Jordan XI in my closet) but the article was extremely interesting and I couldn’t help but draw comparisons from what is going on in the sneaker industry to the current bourbon market. The Bourbon Gray Market. This superb barrel-aged American whiskey is made primarily from corn. The owner of one of the top bourbon bars in the country, Jack Rose Dining Saloon in Washington, D.C., In the story, the writer points out that a 2017 law passed in Kentucky, the, What are your thoughts on what 2020 holds for the secondary bourbon market? These things are almost impossible to predict but I don’t see it slowing for at least another 3-5 years. In terms of bourbon, I see this happening all the time. The big question in the bourbon world is “Is Buffalo Trace leaving money on the table and giving up profits to the secondary market? While some have begun to increase prices (Heaven Hill and Willett seem to be watching the secondary market for their pricing) there’s still a lot of money let on the table. That’s almost a 45% increase in 12 months. In the span of 72 hours, all of the major bourbon groups were wiped out. The moment that little bugger got mad me it entered a shoebox. Bourbon Blue Book. Stagg is closing in on $400. I should have grabbed ’em all, but I only bought one. BourbonEX.com Your definitive source for info & graphs on historical buying and selling bourbon bottles and whiskey. Will the Bourbon market anytime soon? I’d say right now it’s a strategic move, but who knows how long it will last. Great post Blake. The popular auction site eBay, for example, a few years back banned its “informal marketplace for collectable spirits,” according to Drink Spirits, after a 20/20 episode on ABC had a reporter “working with a kid to buy alcohol online.” The simple fact is, consumers want the ability to exchange goods with one another; bourbon, or any alcohol for that matter, is no different. If this page continues to facilitate the sale of alcohol, it will be removed.”. The big difference tho, with sneakers there are many many people who just collect for display (collectors). I am not sure what the laws are in regards to this, but can’t the retailers just break the seals on the bottles when selling them to stop the secondary market? A good friend this past week was able to trade an Old Rip Van Winkle 10-year (MSRP $49.99) and a Weller 12-Year 750mL (MSRP $26.99) for a Booker’s Rye 13-Year (MSRP $299.99). We provide the most complete current and historical prices on bottle found throughout auction houses and online transactions. How would that affect secondary market groups on social media? (Yeah, I drank it.). Bottle-Spot, a popular secondary market website, disappeared late last year as well, independent of the social media police. Like Pat said above…$39-49 is a good price for the 10 year. Here’s to you outdated Tamagotchi; you stupid digital pet. The whiskey industry has done an excellent job marketing and building the popularity of the spirit. Up until the fall of 2019, the bourbon secondary market was a seemingly unstoppable wave. Blame the flipper. … We are beginning to enforce this policy change on groups and pages we discover to be set up for this specific purpose. Buy Bourbon Whiskey Online. We buy anything from single bottles to large cellars, Dom Perignon, Pappy van Winkle, BTAC, Macallan, Lafite, Opus One and much more. The bourbon market doesn’t have the advantage of using mass amounts of data since the resale of alcohol is technically illegal (or a gray area?) Who in their right mind would pay upwards of $200 for a 10 year old bourbon, let alone some of the astronomical prices seen for BTAC and PVW on bottle-spot and other sites. $699. The sneaker industry releases special edition shoes to which people camp out for, riot over and in general go a little too crazy over what is, in my mind, “just a shoe”. But will Facebook’s efforts win out? Owen Powell didn’t create the first group to buy, sell, and trade bourbon, but he certainly created the largest. Those that drink bourbon to enjoy will soon realize there are many good products that can be purchased from the shelf without the craze and secondary price of limited releases, those who buy for name only will burn out as I said. my step brother and i were talking about EXACTLY this this weekend. Distilleries increasing prices? We are your one-stop online liquor store for quality craft bourbon. What bourbons are currently trending on the bourbon secondary? And some of Trace’s most sought after brands, such as George T. Stagg (retail price: $80), or Pappy Van Winkle 12 year (retail price: $60), are now selling for north of $500 on the secondary market. For now, it’s wait and see. What’s the most expensive bottle right now? I doubt this will slow the secondary market at all. funny thing. $129 is a great price for the 20 but I’m not willing to go through the ringer to get a bottle and most wait lists are 2-4 years. The growth of bourbon’s popularity can be attributed to it as well by those that are in it to flip bottles. I had a chance to chat with the sites founder, Dan Donoghue. It is the obvious name that everyone knows, but there doesn’t seem to be an overwhelming amount of transactions compared to other bottles. Follow us on Social Media while we're working on our Jedi Mind Trick, © 2020 by Epic Cellars, a Pinnacle Wine company. A guy that I work with has a connection for getting a bottle of PVW each year. People were lining up 6-7 hour prior to store opening in negative wind chill temps to possibly get a number to be able to have a chance to overpay for one bottle…that is stupidity at it’s finest. What makes it so popular? It would be easy to crush the secondary market and retailers taking profit. While Facebook has been a popular vehicle for the secondary bourbon market for several years now, the social media giant began aggressively policing its policies regarding illegal sales of alcohol through the platform in 2019, particularly in the form of private groups who wheel and deal behind those virtual closed doors, sometimes using code words to discuss transactions. Blame the flipper. Markets are a funny thing, I think that is the case Blake because the secondary market is 200-300% away on the BTAC collection. I’m continually disheartened by the rampant stupidity that has come along recently and goes along with the annual release of Pappy Van Winkle and the Antique series. In the last 6 months, three notable overnight rises really caught the eye of the secondary market with Stagg Jr. Batch 12 soaring to almost double of what the secondary market was selling it for. I think I may be in the minority but as a consumer not a flipper I’d much rather the distilleries raise the prices and make the flippers a little less enticed to buy. farm. It’s a good bourbon but not great…yet. I mean really…there was a store in MN that had a lottery to be able to buy a bottle. Can anyone tell me where is the best place to sell it? Very interesting article, I’m writing this from Sweden and I can say that I see the exact same thing when looking at Scotch here (swedes LOVE scotch). Right now bourbon has become an aged Tamagotchi and it’s in need of a break. 12/28/2017 How much of the secondary market is just Pappy Van Winkle bottles? Sell the limiteds to on premise only. 3. GearPatrol.com offered an inside look at the workings of a Facebook secondary market group in March. The same thing is starting to happen with Bourbon, you see it here and in the rest of Europe. I think this is a very small percentage of the market but increasing. Bourbon Secondary Market Facebook group where bourbon aficionados and collectors come to a single location to buy, sell, trade; WHERE THE LAW PERMITS. Blake, Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. TLDR; scarcity is a huge psychological motivator of these types of markets for both buyers, sellers, and resellers, Anyone want to buy tons of aged Rum while you still can , A year ago my local liquor store had three or four bottles of ORVW 10 (at the front counter, no less) for $45. While the bourbon industry doesn’t have the luxury of increasing supply like the sneaker industry they could still raise prices to capture some of the profits in the secondary market. In the story, the writer points out that a 2017 law passed in Kentucky, the Vintage Spirits Law, allows private collectors to sell so-called “vintage” bottles – those not available for purchase through the three-tier system – directly to a retailer or fellow collector. Not sure if Wall Street hooligans, hedge fund playboys, tech-star cowboys will be actively looking for it on ebay. It only stands to reason private collectors may do the same. These whiskies are aged longer than your typical bourbons. As a regular drinker of fine bourbons I’ve always liked that I can drink some of the finest without really breaking the bank. This keeps me out of the opportunist category and squarely in the never. This situation became noticeable last year, where almost all Buffalo Trace Bourbons were less and less available. That’s the holy grail with any kind of advertising, making people actually READ your advertisement and I did that just now with you! I would love to connect with someone who would be willing to part with a bottle. It’s a global phenomenon. the collectors/gifters don’t mind over paying to save hassle. I hate it more than anything and I hope one day BT will flood the market with Pappy so we all can enjoy without the flippers and stores price gouging. How can we do it? bottle of pvw. 5 years ago I was able to walk into my local VA ABC store and purchase a bottle of PVW 20 for $110 or so without any issues but after that it’s become a PITA. For instance, in the state of Kentucky at least, the price of a bottle of Old Forester Birthday Bourbon last year was in the ballpark of $45 and this year’s release is near $65. Rare Bourbon For Sale. However, I say the same thing about prices and demand for purses and shoes to my wife. Happens on a daily basis. Does this method of advertising work? In a recent interview with the New York Times Mark Brown, the CEO of Buffalo Trace, said this “We’ve been adamant about not raising our prices to our distributors much beyond the cost of goods and inflation,” Mr. Brown said. Reddit swap groups are part of the secondary market too, though, we just don't allow monetary swaps. What are your thoughts on what 2020 holds for the secondary bourbon market? I cut my bourbon teeth on ancient age in 1968. The psychological effect of scarcity is the biggest driver of these types of markets. On the other hand, us drinkers (users) tend to not over pay as much. Of course, ironically, some of those bottles sold very well could end up on the illegal secondary market. Not me! Whether we’d like to admit it or not, it feels great to drink something that others couldn’t get. Some groups on Facebook dedicated to reselling bourbon had surpassed 50,000 members, turning the social network into a venerable bazaar, rife with unicorn bottles rarely glimpsed in the wild. People searching for elusive brands, the like of Pappy Van Winkle, George T. Stagg were facing fewer avenues. The Bourbon Secondary Market Is Now Legal in Kentucky, Sort of On January 1, Kentucky’s new ‘Vintage Spirits Law’ took effect. We’re in this business for the long term. I want to get it for my father who will turn 80 years old in January,2018. Before that, there was BX, which succeeded Bourbon Exchange, the first major Facebook whiskey buy/sell/trade group, which was created in 2013 and shut down in 2016. So, what’s the motivation? of choice. Thanks, Jack! $4500, Hahaha I hope you forgot to mention it’s actually 3 bottles. The mysterious bourbon flipper is the most hated figure in bourbon today. All we can say is that the market in general is crazy right now, but I’m pretty sure every bourbon drinker is experiencing that. Here’s how I see the bourbon secondary shifting: Like it or hate it limited edition bourbons are sold on the secondary market on sites like Bottle-Spot, Facebook groups and Craigslist every day. Gift an engraved bottle of Bourbon for a special occasion. There are plenty of good bourbons that don’t require selling the Still, with the secondary bourbon market being the wild west right now, it’s hard to completely nail prices. We carry everything from tr Facebook has announced that they are gonna start cracking down on illegal alcohol sales, which will directly effect the secondary market since a lot of re-selling is done on facebook. Basically, they’re tied in to a network of traders/sellers that submit the data. Once upon a time, you could stroll into a liquor store and ask the attendant for a bottle of his rarest bourbon. Everything was for sale, he said, from hard-to-find Willett Family Estate bottles right down to sought-after Four Roses Marriage to a bottle of Johnny Walker’s. It’s not only Blanton’s, but Eagle Rare 10, Col Taylor, and Weller-12. What Will Happen in the Bourbon Secondary Market in 2020? Bourbon's name comes from the French Bourbon dynasty, which also sparked Bourbon County in Kentucky and Bourbon Street in New Orleans. Read More. We may earn commission on some of the items you choose to buy. I have no problem with the opportunists in terms of trading, but selling at an insane markup is the same to me as ticket scalping… Purchasing and selling the value of scarcity regardless of the quality of the end product. Whether or not people hate the current state of the secondary bourbon market, or flippers or whatever, the secondary market is a good thing. The most expensive bottle in our system that we are trying to keep track of is the Pappy Van Winkle 23 Year Decanter Set. Sure, sometimes I regret having not traded something, but if I hadn’t tried what was in there, I would never know what I was missing. I’ve obliged and I will admire the bottles I’ve been able to acquire over the years. Not to take away at the quality because it certainly is there, but if you’re willing to pay retail plus 300-400% I’ve got some ocean front property in Arizona I’d like to talk to you about. These days, the shelves have barely-aged artisan products in fancy bottles, and getting that unique bottle seems like a fantasy. The guy he gets it from gets 2 bottles and sells one to my friend at retail price [no flipping or secondary pricing]. The “bourbon secondary market” is plural — referring to all of the secondary whiskey marketS — because there are tons of places that spirits are resold. When the Wall Street Journal said that Pappy Van Winkle was the bottle that Billionaires couldn’t buy it reinforced that feeling even more. She then points me to my bourbon room and then I shut my mouth. At this point, there is zero resale value. At the time, I was living in NYC and would get stopped in stores for people to comment on the shoes that I was wearing [at the time – i was a big air max fan]. While the secondary market may include only a minimal number of active participants, it meets a very real demand in the marketplace and seems to be growing. My take away from all of the posts I’ve read is this: bourbon drinkers tend to be a group of intelligent, thoughtful, literate sorts! For Questions /  Contact us at [email protected]. 2015 if anyone’s interested, 15 yr, located in Midwest. Why would they do this? Eh, I have no interest in hunting for bourbon, paying secondary for a bottle of something is easier than trying to hunt or trade for one, usually. As my income increased so did the quality of the bourbon. What’s also increasing is the bourbon opportunist The guy that is in to bourbon but can fund a year of purchases with the sale of one bottle of Pappy. The secondary market helps measure the economic condition of a country. So many factors go into play with what a retailer suggests as the retail price and where it ends up from there. The owner of one of the top bourbon bars in the country, Jack Rose Dining Saloon in Washington, D.C., announced in March that its collection of more than 2,700 bottles was going up for sale as a direct result of the pandemic. For now, I think we need to be ready for the craziness that waits for the bourbon industry every fall. While most limited editions are quality the psychological effect pricing has is substantial. I am in desperate search for a bottle of any of the Van Winkle bourbons. “The reason for that is very simple. I jumped on the grenade early thinking it might be my only chance and because of that I was left with only one option and that was to sell my 23 yr pappy online to recoup the money I paid for the two stores that ripped me off. Then, one day in late November, it happened. The rise or fall in share prices indicates a boom or recession cycle in an economy. While Facebook has been a popular vehicle for the secondary bourbon market for several years now, the social media giant began aggressively policing its policies regarding illegal sales of alcohol through the platform in 2019, particularly in the form of private groups who wheel and deal behind those virtual closed doors, sometimes using code words to discuss transactions. I think of a flipper as someone that doesn’t even drink bourbon and purchases solely for resale. Browse our large selection of great American bourbon whiskeys at great prices. The secondary market is important for several reasons: 1. Everyone thinks the Pappy Van Winkle line is the driving force behind the whiskey secondary market, but it is simply not true. A standardized secondary marketplace, which is what we want to be, would be a very positive for bourbon, whisky and booze in general. When you buy bourbon whiskey online at our store you also get our premium shipping services. However, there are other releases like the Lebron’s, Kobe’s and KD’s (BTAC) that also fetch multiples on MSRP on the secondary market. However, I just don’t see that happening. Limited Edition Bourbon and the Secondary Market, FiveThirtyEight posted an article about the secondary market in the sneaker industry, interview with the New York Times Mark Brown, Hunting For Pappy: An Analysis Of The Controversial Whiskey Market, Jim Beam Distillery Production Cheat Sheet. Store increased their prices? Bourbon whiskey is a type of American whiskey that is a barrel-aged distilled liquor made mainly from corn. Even if FB is shut down there are still other sites for buying and trading (we all know what they are so I won't name them.) deal behind those virtual closed doors, sometimes using code words to discuss transactions. As always good write up and good read! I’d be interested in seeing some figures as to how many “flippers” actually sell for these outrageous prices. I have been looking for a bottle of PVW for sometime. There's too much other stuff to drink to spend silly money chasing maybe incrementally better. I have a unopened bottle of Pappy Von Winkle Family Reserve 20 years. Can’t find Pappy? I don’t see bourbon ever asking me to feed it but I do have to clean up it’s mess from time to time. just send a quick message here: [email protected], Your email address will not be published. It sucks for all of us that enjoy it but I have to admit the chase was kinda fun. Sound familiar? You’re living proof that they do since you’re reading this message right now The awesome thing is, you can do this for less than $25 a week! Nash tracked Internet rumors and the online secondary market, drove across several states, and looked inside more than two dozen liquor stores in search of any limited edition or hard-to-find bourbon. There are a couple distilleries that are raising their prices, but overall the markup from the distilleries seems to be steady. BSM had run for a handful of years and had upwards of 55,000 members when it was removed. I have a feeling no one will risk $2000 on a bottle with a broken seal which may have been filled with cheap bourbon vs the real thing. One of the biggest groups is called Bourbon Secondary Market" (BSM), and I guess they have already been contacted by Facebook admins with the news. No, BSM, or Bourbon Secondary Market, was simply a spot for drinkers to re-sell bottles of coveted American whiskeys. "'the secondary market isn't about finding something good to drink. For those that have drank Old Rip Van Winkle 10 year know that while it is a good bourbon it’s simply that just a “good” 10 year old bourbon. If your ego is bigger than your brain pay the price for a I’ll just be over here drinking Maker’s 46, Michters or any other number of really good bourbons and ryes that I can get easily and are moderately priced.

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